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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.06 07:04:00 -
[1]
There needs to be a reason for people to go out to belts in lowsec. That means there needs to be better ore and low-level battleship spawns in lowsec.
Mission safespots also need to be placed on the plane of the system so its actually reasonably possible to scan them down before hell freezes over.
As for pirates, remove the sentry response to aggression flagging which has been a stupid idea ever since it was introduced (sentries only respond to aggression they 'see'), and raise sentry range to 250k.
Fix the problem where people who return fire dont get killrights if theyve been criminally engaged, and introduce CONCORD agents which help track people remotely who you have killrights on. Allow killrights to be traded between corpmates (I have concerns over allowing killrights to be freely traded, seems like it would be altabusetastic).
I would also like to see the navy response to security status removed in highsec - if you get outlaws moving around in areas with lots of people, you'll start getting more incidental PvP. It doesnt do anything now anyway, since everyone just hauls ships with alts.
I think thats just about all I can think of. Rewards for being in belts and whatnot in low-sec is the big one, without it theres no reason to bother changing anything else.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.06 18:05:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Caliwyrm O'Libr
QFT. I venture into low sec space from time to time for different reasons (usually for a mission and *never* with anything valuable in my hold) and I don't know whether to laugh or cry at all of the snipers in battleships who take shots from 187km+ away at my shuttle at a gate. Getting into PvP *fights* can be fun for both sides--getting sniped from people who will warp out if/as soon as you get a lock on them isn't any fun what so ever.
Most of the people I talk to in the game don't go into low sec simply because they believe (usually rightfully so) they won't make more than 2 or 3 hops before they hit a gate camp and get sent home to the cloning bay. And even *if* they do make it to somewhere in low sec to set up a base of operations (to run missions, mine, etc) how long before they get tired of being shot at all the time for no better rewards than high sec?
Sniping in lowsec is like missions in highsec.
You dont do it because its fun, you do it because its a good way to make isk and its not dangerous at all.
Just like lvl 4 missions in highsec, it needs a nerf.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.07 19:30:00 -
[3]
This thread is filled with the adorabe cluelessly righteous and the hilarious indignant armchair generals.
Let me break it down for you. CCP hates piracy. Piracy has never been boosted in 3 years. Piracy has been nerfed countless times, both intentionally and unintentionally, in 3 years. Stop complaining that EVE caters to pirates, its an idiotic assertion that anyone with half a brain can see is untrue.
The number one danger to pirates in lowsec is other pirates/real combat corps looking for some quick fun. Your so-called anti-pirate corps dont even make the top ten, theyre down under NPCs.
The problem with piracy is that the game mechanics force people to pirate in ways which are riskless. If the game mechanics forced people to pirate in risky ways, removing the riskless piracy, then there would not be a problem. Well, if youre complaining now, you'd still be complaining, but thats because youre just not any good at EVE.
Low-sec needs to be better from a risk/reward point of view, since right now its worthless. Missions need to have their safespot deadspaces pushed onto the system plane so they're actually probeable. Sentry guns need to stop responding to aggression which occurs elsewhere in system, as well as being buffed to 250k range. Killrights need to be upgraded and finding people you have killrights on needs to be made easier.
If the sum total of your experience with piracy is "dem l4m3r ratz )MG SH00t m3", stfu and go away. That seems to include 75% of the people posting in this thread - you know nothing, and your opinions range from the arrogantly ignorant to the whiny and neurotic.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.07 19:54:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 07/10/2006 19:54:13
Originally by: Jan Mierre
MWD nerf #1 - Indy ships can no longer use MWD. That hurt pirates somehow?
MWD nerf #2 - MWD's can no longer be stacked (ok, ok, I agreed with this one)
Gates/stations lock if you try to jam or shoot back at a gate camper - This hurts piracy?
Sorry, did I step into a time warp and come out in an EVE without instas?
Thanks for playing, you know nothing. Quote:
Nothing is done about people recycling alts in high sec suicide ganks - that hurts piracy?
Since thats a bannable exploit, see my first response. Quote:
Warp disruptors scramble at +2. WCS counters at +1, meaning victim has to fit 2 modules to counter the aggressor's 1 - that hurts piracy?
...
I have no reply to the cluelessness of that. Whats the max range on WCS? Whats the max range on scramblers? GG.
Quote:
I don't know dude. Seems like they bend over backwards to assist pirates at everybody else's expense.
Lets see:
Introducing sentries
Upping damage on sentries (repeatedly)
Upping range on sentries (repeatedly)
Basic (free) Insurance
Criminal Flagging
Sentry Response to Criminal Flagging
Lvl 4 Missions (There used to be a time people would take battleships into low-sec belts)
Lvl 4 Mission supersafespots
I'm getting a cramp or I'd continue.
But please, tell me how much CCP likes pirates again. My tolerance for stupid hasnt been COMPLETELY exausted today.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.07 20:53:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jenial
since your so good why dont you go attack those running level 4 missions?? ohhhhhh risk/rewards?? Sounds like you guys just like to kill small fry and dont like to have a risk when killing another player. hmmmm sound pretty much the same as people who dont bother going into low sec because you camp gates too much.
I'll tell you what would get people out more to low sec, but its going to take time. stop mass killing anyone and only be selective in your kills. let a month go by where people are allowed to explore without being gate pawned. you might actually get some people willing to try it out.
but if you continue to just kill everyone and play gate keeper you low sec hoarding grounds will be mostly empty.
Pirates in low-sec space used to ransom at gates. That was rendered impossible - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, griefers'.
Pirates in low-sec space used to hunt targets in belts for ransom. That was rendered irrelevant - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, greifers'.
Pirates in low-sec used to be able to make money without sifting wreckage with an alt. That was rendered impossible - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, greifters'.
Pirates have adapted. The snipe-gank everything from 200k with no risk is the pirate adaptation to the changes your forebearers begged to have introduced to curtail piracy. As someone keeps saying, "If you pay the danegeld, you never get rid of the dane". Unfortunately, by not paying the danegeld, you've simply eliminated the only reason the dane didnt just stab you in the first place.
Welcome to the inevitable consequences of your bretheren and their shortsightedness. You get exactly what you deserve.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.07 22:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jan Mierre
The question from my earlier post still stands: Why aren't all the pirates looking for action where the action is, instead of sitting on empire gates that most people know to avoid?
The answer from my earlier post still stands.
Pirates snipe at gates because its a boring, but effective, way of making isk. Just like people run lvl 4 missions in highsec because it is a boring, but effective, way of making isk.
Just like lvl 4 missions in highsec, sniping needs a nerf.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.08 14:52:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dynast
And they adapted and ignore low sec in favor of places where they don't get sniped. And your lot come to the boards and complain they don't get enough action.
Face it: you've made low sec space suck to live in. You can get something close to double your money missioning in low sec, but the vast majority (90% or more?) mission in high sec, because the risks posed by low sec are not competitive or challenging, they're stupid and lame.
No, the game was adapted for them. Every piece of game content that exists was placed into .5+ (thanks to lvl 4 missions), making low-sec irrelevant.
Lvl 4 missions have been slowly getting 'rebalanced', but thats a losing fight - its broken to have battleships spawning on demand in high-security space, and they need to be removed alltogether from highsec.
As a point of fact, you make something like 30% more LP and isk from mission rewards - bounties are the same, which makes up the majority of mission income.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.08 19:20:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 08/10/2006 19:21:35
Fine, stay in empire and mine omber / run lvl 3 missions. I dont care.
The fact is, lvl 4 missions are low-sec content which fell into highsec due to a failure of vision and foresight. Before they existed, people could run lvl 3 missions in HACs, and you actually saw people in lowsec doing something other then supersafespot lvl4 missions.
Low-sec space needs an isk buff. Mainly in ores and belt NPCs. Low-level battleship spawns would be fine - hell, if that was unbalancing, then lvl 4 missions chain-spawning high-level battleship spawns must really be whacked. Mission safespots need to be moved down onto the system plane so theyre reasonably probeable. Gate guns need more range, because sniping is stupid and needs to go. Lvl 4 missions in high-sec need to just straight disappear - move all the agents around to various low-sec systems to try to disperse the lowsec mission hubs. I would like to see warp bubbles in lowsec which catch anyone who's got a PvP flag active (criminal or non-criminal).
That would be balanced. You go to lowsec and take the risks to make more money. Not you go to lowsec and take the risks and get 30% more LP.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.08 22:50:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
But this thread's more about improvements to the existing game. There's not a whole lot of campbusting going on in LowSec that I know of compared to 0.0, even in NPC 0.0. Why? I'm not experienced enough with 0.0 to understand all the reasons, but I think a big one is that the rewards for getting into LowSec in the first place aren't quite where they should be. Consequently there's little reason to break up most camps for the effort involved.
Snipers arent worth going after, and most camps are snipers. People tanking the guns are a glowy red target in a very vulnerable spot, they get busted up all the time.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.08 23:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Brucette
Pirates have, in general, a massive hangup about this.
While there have been a number of people who identify themselves as "pirates" on this thread being quite constructive and genuinely looking to alleviate the boredom of their gatecamping, I'm afraid I don't think the situation is likely to change until the profession becomes less trendy (so the overwhelming number of f-wits that currently infest losec will find something more glamerous to do).
Regarding WCSs, people who pack zillions of stabs are generally also lame pirates. Missionrunners can't gimp their setup that badly.
Most of the good pirates quit piracy because of how idiotic it is (I know I did). Most of the pirates who are left are people who actually think sniping from 200k isnt idiotic.
Sure, its something you have to do thanks to the game being broken - just like I have to put ECM on everything - but if you like that you have to do it, theres something wrong with you.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.09 00:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Brucette
The intent of missions is not to provide pirates with easy kills. Note they no longer have missions in open space (near gates, near stations) any more. why, I wonder?
Because mission runners kited non-deadspace missions, causing them to be utterly riskless in every sense of the word, and deadspace missions cant take place at gates/stations.
Any further questions about things you should know if youre participating in this debate?
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.09 02:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Brucette
At least a part of the problem is the artificial distinction between "pirates" and "carebears". Piracy in EVE is noteably different from RL crime because there is a very strong community support vibe encouraging more people to become pirates. There seems to be very little in the way of territorial tendancies or efforts to extinguish any competition for prey.
I know when I was a pirate, that anything flashing red would probably drop better loot then usual. Unless its blue, as a pirate you shoot it. Other pirates arent exempt from that (although it is nice not having them whine about being 'forced' to PvP).
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.11 22:59:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Darkenral
In order to make mission running attractive in low sec you would need to @ a minimum triple the bounties on rats and adjust the loot tables.
Fortunately, lvl 4 missions are triple the rewards of lvl 3. That means if lvl 3 are in highsec and lvl 4 are in lowsec, its perfect.
Thanks for agreeing.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.12 18:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: keen666
to allow it's members to have a longer aggression towards crimnals (flagging longer than 15 minutes) in system.
Most pirates are outlaws, and even if they arent, as long as you dont pod them your sec status will be fine.
This is a complicated solution which does nothing. You went three hundred and sixty degrees on this problem.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.12 22:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: sharkyballs
actually i did not go 360 degrees because we're talking about controlled systems, not pirating. and most pirates are not blinky. it does take a while for you to get that way and then yes it doesn't matter, so you shouldnt' care if you are blinky. but from living in low sec for the past 4 months, i know that most of the characters that commit crimes are not blinky. this would again allow a slight ability to "police" a system. if your committing a crime, it shouldn't matter what your sec status is, and there should be a little better way of controlling it. like i said, it works for pirates as well.
i think you just like arguing for the sake of it unless you trully didn't understand my post.
Oh, I understood your post, and if I'd been arguing for arguing's sake I'd have pointed out that trying to bring PoSwars into lowsec means you deserve to get dragged out behind the tool shed and shot.
The solution to random acts of piracy is increasing the global criminal flag to 12 hours and removing the CONCORD/sentry response to crimes that dont occur in their jurisdictions (highsec for concord, within range for sentries). You'd have to have a seperate CONCORD flag which is only 15 minutes instead of basing CONCORD off global criminal flagging. Increase the gate gun range to 250k too, I'm sick of snipers.
Your solution is a complicated non-solution. It'll have no positive affect.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.12 22:20:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Samirol
in retort to your idea, i say that you can only do 1 mission every 12 hours, and that your targets are 250km away and you can't use an afterburner.
Reasonable ideas only please...
You cant keep pirating because people can shoot you first?
Wow. Piracy really has gone downhill.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.12 22:32:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 12/10/2006 22:33:11
The point behind flagging people for a long time and removing the NPC reaction to it (for crimes that dont occur in front of the NPCs) is to allow players the ability to kill pirates. Leave the CONCORD and sentry flags at 15 minutes.
If youre saying that is totally unfair for pirates, then youre saying that you cant pirate if people can shoot at you first. Which is either true and a sad comment on the state of pirates today, or absurd.
I think it would make pirating more fun if people who go pirate in some .4 system can then be engaged 8 hours later for that crime in a .9. I know the only reason I fixed my security status from -10.0 was to be able to go into empire, I actually miss my outlaw tag aside from that.
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.12 23:01:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 12/10/2006 23:02:29
Originally by: Samirol
ah, i misunderstood. So the global criminal timer would still be 15 minutes, but people would still be able to attack me in high sec?
And would this replace the current sec status system?
No, the global criminal flag, which allows anyone to shoot you, would be 12 hours, and would still be triggered by criminal aggression.
CONCORD would have its own seperate 15m flag, only triggered by aggression in highsec. Sentries would have their own 15m flag, only triggered by aggression in front of sentries.
This means that you can move between systems while flagged, even going into highsec. It also means that players can engage you while youre doing it. Hell, it would even cut down on high-sec ganking at popular gates - sitting in a caracal noone can touch is one thing, sitting in a flagged caracal and scanning haulers means that someone's probably going to get you first.
And no, it wouldnt replace the outlaw system, although I wish they'd decouple sec status from navy responses in highsec. Putting outlaws in populated areas where others can engage them is more fun then LOLNPCGANK.
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